The Think Tank: Macro Discussion and Opportunities Brainstorming

,

Just a note on the feedback that we got from JPow today and my perspective on it. I added this to the trading floor but want to make sure it’s added here today too.

I think the general reaction from the market today was probably a little over the top, but the big push to bring down housing demand I think was the nail in the coffin. We’ll see how futures play out tonight and how tomorrow morning opens, but my major takeaway from today’s session is that we’re business as usual at least until the next meeting:

  • Bad news that affects macroeconomic variables will probably continue to be immediately bad but shift to good shortly thereafter
  • Good news that affects macroeconomic variables will likely continue to be bad

Apart from the housing bombshell, I think the speech today conveyed the same sentiment but in a softer manner than Jackson Hole. I don’t think anything has changed from our day-to-day strategy. The Fed is hyper focused on inflation and as long as that’s their #1 priority it will likely remain the primary market narrative until we have our first fed meeting that doesn’t result in a rate hike (or something worse happens before then, all eyes on Putin and Xi).

4 Likes

Another awesome interview of Cem Karsan:

Market talk starts around 10 mins in this 1.5 hr interview. He talks about some of the big picture behind the big picture - sort of what is happening in the background as we sort out recession, inflation, supply chain issues etc.

Punchline: “If you want to address all this inequality, it is inherently inflationary.”

4 Likes

We had a good conversation in TF today on whether the default option should be to consider a day as bullish or bearish. Ran some numbers for SPY for 2022, here are the results.

image
(C-C total is 178 because I didn’t stick ==0 anywhere)

Legend:

  • Up is positive returns
  • Down is negative returns
  • O-C is Open-Close
  • C-C is Close-Close (i.e. comparing the nth day’s close with the (n-1)th’s)

Let’s talk through the O-C days since they are more relevant for scalping. You can extend this to C-C.

How to read this: Colored the cells that go together in yellow. Let’s use those to paint the picture. 98 out of the 180 days were Up. That’s 54% of days. The average move was 0.92%, with a standard deviation of 0.69%. The max Up move was 4.20%.

Observations: Comparing to Down days then, we can conclude the following:

  • There were fewer Down days (82 vs 98 Up) - so odds are any given day is a green day
  • Down days are down by 1.12% on average, vs 0.92% for Up days
  • Down days have a larger range over which it moves, vs Up days (std deviation of 0.79% vs 0.69%)
  • The max positive/Up move was larger than the max negative/Down move (4.2% vs -3.36%)

At the end of the day, ROI seems like a coin toss if one had to choose between Up or Down days, as the 54% Up days have a 0.20% lower return compared to Down days. This is captured by the average return of -0.01% for all 180 days this year. (Blue cell)

C-C Stats: Will not walk through the whole analysis here, but just point out the deviation compared to O-C - the average return is -0.11% per day. -0.11% x 180 gives us the -19% YTD return we have on our hands.

Top 10 days: These are the top 10 days by size of move, for Up and Down days. Given that the Down moves are that much more violent in the extremes, perhaps there’s an edge in being a Downer in terms of returns.

image

Takeaway: (assuming the future looks like the past - hah!)

  • For day trades/scalping, if one had to choose Up or Down as a default posture, one couldn’t really go wrong. They are like two sides of a coin - their stats balance out. If you chose Up, you’d be right more often, but you’d make less money than Downers. If you chose Down, you’d be right less often, but you’d make more money than Uppers.
  • For swing trades, be bearish until it is not a bear market anymore.
11 Likes

My post from TF on the current situation… I expect a whipsaw at some point where the Fed oversteps and we could see a potentially catastrophic correction. This is merely a possibility I could see happening based upon the Fed’s mishandling of the inflation situation, but I like to consider all scenarios:

If you really look at the numbers and include wage growth, we’ve been stagflating since the 70s in all but the highest income brackets.

With the effective elimination of a large part of the labor market one way or another via Covid, we now see wages beginning to correct upwards to where they should have been a while ago.

But despite that, with how the market has decided that financing absolutely everything these days is a good thing/the only way to proceed (most likely thanks to the aforementioned wage stagnation), making credit too expensive too quickly could cause a massive economic contraction because cheap credit simply cannot exist anymore and still be profitable with how quickly inflation has risen.

Think about it… you can finance almost anything these days at a low to zero percent rate. With close to 10% (and likely over in reality) inflation rates following the absolute garbage economic policy of trying to keep the county alive via paper and toner during Covid, how can any of these companies survive/maintain these policies? Something has to give and I believe it will be the credit market that has kept growth so steady.

Basically what I believe is that the biggest players will end up in a highly overleveraged position far too quickly to react in a controlled manner and to put it simply… Internal Stack Error: Stack Fall Down Go Boom.

Edit: I tend to think worst case scenario but the more I learn about the market and the more I watch it… the more likely I think my thesis is to occur.

Am I confident enough to position heavily into it? No. Because that’s the last thing the powers that be want. But is it a possibility? I’d argue that yes, it is, and the probability increases more and more as time goes on

4 Likes

The Bankers…


Tickers:

  • MA, Mastercard
  • V, Visa
  • JPM, Chase
  • COF, Capital One
  • WFC, Wells Fargo

MA weekly chart…


Almost entering the 4th Phase of its Distribution Model, Signs of Weakness abound with Feeble Rallies.
I’ve drawn projections of the 200 EMA line (red) and the 45 EMA line (yellow) crossing down–time frame might be faster, depending on FED interest rate decisions.

  • Long Put Target is 199.99, best for end of 2023.
  • Easier Put Targets are 281.20 and 258.51, best for 4Q 2022 and 2Q 2023.

V weekly chart…


Same points as MA above.

  • Long Put Target is 133.93.
  • Easier Put Targets are 179 and 168.

JPM weekly chart…


This one is most likely near the end of its Final Distribution Phase.
The only obvious target is the gap-fill to 105.
Support Line of 90 is most likely a strong area.
Low of 76.91 is a gamble, but watch out for news specific to Chase that might effect moving further down to that price.


COF weekly chart…


Obvious target is the gap-fill to 79.
Strong Support Line should be 57.
Low of 38 is a gamble, best not to reach towards it unless Capital One report really bad earnings in succession.


WFC weekly chart…


Immediate target is 36.54.
Gap-fill of 33 is the next possibility.
Support Line of 29.82 might hold the line, unless dire news piles on against Wells Fargo–it has happened before.
Gap-fill to 22.5 is a Long Put gamble, but it is there so it’s a good channel to help confirm absolute bottom on this stock.


  • Financial institutions and other related business will keep getting hit until the FED starts to pull back on raising interest rates.
  • Lending businesses like UPST, AFRM, and SOFI have already been beaten down ahead of the Bankers.

xxx

9 Likes

Fed fund rates have moved up a full 50 bps in a week. Rate curve is flattening out.

Eric makes a persuasive case that the markets are not pricing in a recession yet, which gives the Fed green light for continued tightening:

If the whole curve is at or above 4.5%, and we have more signs of P/E stress, this will add more pressure on equities.

4 Likes

Orders came in weak this morning but not necessarily as weak as expected. Looking the HOPE aggregate I think we’re going to start seeing below forecast orders starting next month. In the immediate we can use the information to posit that housing will also be weaker than expected this morning.

1 Like

My current take on the market – why I’m bullish in the short term (next two months) and cataclysmically bear in the long (everything beyond that)

I just want to levelset around my current perspective so everyone knows where I stand:

I believe that we are heading into a recession. I believe that this will trigger a massive market selloff, and I think we will experience a crash within the next 4-6 months. I think many of us will make great money off it. I also don’t believe that it will happen before the next 4 months, and when the wash of fear lets go, I believe we will have a slow jog rally for a few months before plummeting to a long cold death that will probably take 3-5 years to recover from.

It’s no secret that I have a full on chubby over this chart that Ni posted that I have been referring to as the HOPE aggregate. Effectively this is watching how the market responds to rate increases by looking at Housing, New Orders, Profits, and Employment. This is my Exhibit A, as I will be leaning heavily on this in my analysis in this post.


Exhibit A – The HOPE Aggregate

Another image I’ve posted before that I revisit often is slope of growth pre-COVID and pre-housing crash. I end up with a roughly drawn three-line channel that represents the median line between the dot-com bubble and the housing crash, the 11 years of standard growth between the housing crash and COVID and our current situation, and a third line marking the midpoint of the two that happens to correlate well with the excessive volatility of the early Trump years.

This is my rough exhibit B. While we’ve meme’d it, the general philosophy is that stocks always go up over time and we can see that in our market overview below. The economy is expanding, and in aggregate, even on bad months, we always trend up. We bucked the natural trend badly during the inflationary period; however I think naturally we want to be between these three lines. And yes, I recognize that this can put us as low as $310 and as high as $430 in January 2023.


Exhibit B – Stocks always go up

It’s important to note that these aren’t just lines on a chart. This is a representation of HOW our economy has grown over the past 20 years. And right now honestly I think we’re where we’d be if not for the meddling of the fed and that pesky disease and Russia.

With that in mind, I’m going to spend some time talking about the HOPE aggregate some more using everyone’s favorite not correct analogy – the 2008 market crash. I don’t want to talk about shapes or dollar values or anything of the sort, just pointing to some of the major indicators that preceded the crash and how they correlate to today.

My first point of interest is housing data in the form of the NAHB Housing Index. Specifically, I want to call out the point in which there was a stark reversal and how much time elapsed between the housing market starting to go down horribly and the market following suit – the markets grew by 15% heading into that recession AFTER the housing market started going down significantly. Now important note on this – the cause of the housing collapse in 2008 was not because of housing, but rather mortgages and it takes a long time to default on mortgages (make note of where my cursor is and the date highlighted)

Consumer confidence is next in the HOPE aggregate as an easy to conceptualize market metric. At this time in 2007 the consumers had a PRETTY good idea that shit was brewing but they weren’t sure when. At this point the Consumer Confidence index spiked up a bit, and then fell just slightly shortly before the markets crashed. However, again, there were three months in which the markets grew 13% before the market plummeted.

Finally, and really the last point I need to emphasize here, is Orders. Looking at new orders we can see that at this point the house index has fallen, confidence has fallen, but orders are still up. As soon as Orders plummet, the market goes with it.

Catastrophic drops in Orders immediately affects profits. Profits are by and large how the market is priced. Once we see orders drop, we know that we’ll be in a world of pain because profits will go, employment will follow. However, once it drops, we’re probably already too late to take immediate action on it.

I know I promised a Venn diagram but instead I’m going to give an image I threw together. I’ve been struggling with when we will transition from good news is bad, bad news is good. I believe I’ve done enough analysis to say that the cutline is between a plunge in consumer confidence and a plunge in new orders.

image

With that said, I don’t think it’s out of the question to maybe not “rally”, but slow jog until the end of the year. Until we start to see consumer confidence plummeting and it starting to affect new orders. While my colleague Phil is bearish in the immediate, I’m not ready to throw in the balloon towel just yet. My perspective is that we’re going to float back towards 4000 until the end of the year and around February or March we’ll see the crash.

At this time, I haven’t seen enough diminished confidence nor anything more than a plateau of orders to convince me otherwise and I think it would be presumptuous to assume that the markets are ready to do the same. However I do think it’s coming soon. 4 months goes fast.

11 Likes

I ain’t gonna read all that, but your analysis is weak and mine is strong. :rofl: In all seriousness what changed things for me was the complete deflation (pun!) of the narrative that inflation had peaked along with the more hawkish stance of the Fed in both words and actions in the past 30 days. The dollar is up and people are going to move money out of equities into cash faster as a result, which will prevent what I previously thought would be slow jog up to November.

4 Likes

hmmmmmm… :orangutan:

3 Likes

Very well done. Wish I could export this post alone just to show my father that we’re not actually degens sitting in a discord gambling on FD’s blindly.

All of this is great points but doesn’t have the current trending of current data overlayed with our current situation so we can see how this is happening in real time. I think we’re all in alignment that in the current macro environment housing is just beginning to show slow down signs (and not even substantial ones at that). I’m incredibly interested to explore that first phase of the HOPE chart in the housing thread. There’s a lot of different factors we can look at: the change in WFH causing corporate office space leases to recede to unprecedented levels ever for the economy, the massive influx of single family homes value being now more correlated to equities being traded than ever before with Dodd-Frank act repealed (brokers, REIT’s, and yes Black Rock-esqe investment firms), the impacts upon builders already facing supply chain shortages and material prices, some might even say the housing dilemma could be sparked from the possible crisis developing over in China from the Evergrande fiasco that is likely more widespread than the global markets know, but nonetheless great post and we’ve got plenty of time to position and develop our thesis as we look towards more housing data drops.

9 Likes

Update: V already hit its first target.

4 Likes

I didn’t have much of a chance to update my perceptions on this one this morning after some pretty bad news globally.

My perception is largely unchanged, but my timelines have been shrunk considerably. What was a “we probably have 2-3 months” might look a little more like 1-2 now. Good and ethical businesses are going to get ahead of their pitfalls and that’s exactly what happened with Apple last night. The actions taken by the BOE this morning saved some of that bearish momentum but make no mistake, from an LSE perspective it is still largely really bad.

The reason I’m still wearing a set of bullhorns despite an increased CPI print, Fed terminal rates becoming clearer, and all of the bad shit that is probably going to happen over the coming months is the difference between what is inevitably going to happen versus what is happening right now. Right now, we have news that provides hope that the next CPI print won’t be as bad. Right now, we have indicators telling us that fed action is working and demand destruction is working. Right now, all we can do is react to the news that is right in front of us and understand how it jives with the current narrative of rampant inflation/impending doom.

Is it all too little too late? Yes. Most definitely. My timeline is shrunken now if the O part of HOPE starts to translate into diminished P, as Apple has more than heavily alluded to last night. My chart above definitely shows my stance on where I think bad news becomes bad. I think that cut line in the O is going to happen a lot sooner than I thought last night.

October 14th and October 28th are the two dates I’m watching in the near future of “known in advance” market catalysts. If sentiment takes a sharp turn down, the end of rally season is nigh. If it doesn’t, then we look to November as well. Until then, I’m playing each day based on the news that is dropped.

2 Likes

what i am seeing on the charts is that spy is now almost over extended to the upside. as i would expect in this kind of market, a bear rally one day to be followed by red days. as trend has shown there had been big pops and then steady decline the following days. one indicator im looking at is the rsi. spy does not like to be around the 60 mark and seems to get rejected each time. this 369/370 level should be a decent area to enter puts to swing. as well as 10y bonds and the dollar have finally pulled back today this is a good time to get in on a relief rally. as always dont fight the trend short term (fds) as today has been mostly bullish but long term is very bearish. days like this are great times to buy puts if you are bearish. The vix has also cooled off a bit but is still above 30 which is well in range for a continuation of a downtrend. be safe, and trade smart everyone

1 Like

Someone able to find how correlated PCE is to previous CPI?

Not very correlated. PCE just tends to level off and drop as the market turns down.

2 Likes

TL;DR: Best I can tell, there really isn’t any correlation I can determine between CPI & PCE data and SPY movement.

I highlighted my SPY chart to include the PCE release dates now, yellow. CPI releases are light blue.

I also dug up all the CPI & PCE data for the year, headline & core, y/y & m/m breakdowns.

BOLD = Forecast (since PCE isn’t out yet). Also keep in mind the data is released the month after, so if you want to compare August in the table you would look for the lines in September. Also note that PCE data dropped the same day as the Jackson Hole speech.

CPI_vs_PCE

8 Likes

Fantastic work as always!

It looks like the market pretty much treated core PCE as a lower impact event. However, I wonder if Core PCE might cause a big move this time around. JPow mentioned core PCE is the most important data point for gauging rate hikes. I wonder if since he literally said it at the FOMC conference, that institutional trading algos have been adjusted accordingly.

Excerpt on core PCE from here.

Most Important Piece of Economic Data for JPow: Core PCE

JPow stated that the main incentive for aggressive front loading of rate hikes is the core PCE, not the CPI, not the PPI. The inflation target is 2%. Currently the core PCE at a 3, 6 and 12 month trailing annualized basis is at 4.8%, 4.5% and 4.8% accordingly.

Think back to Volcker. This means the fed funds rate needs to be at least 5% to meaningfully drive down core PCE. We are now at 3.25%, which means we have 175 bps of rate hikes to come.

The 2Y yield is another indicator of more rate hikes. The 2Y is above 4% right now. The fed is always chasing the bond yield. For example, soon we will see 5% 2Y yield and the fed funds rate will be 4ish%, then a 5.5% 2Y yield and fed funds rate of 5%, etc.

In order to show that the fed is in charge, they would need to immediately hike rates to 5% above the 2Y yield, above the core PCE.

5 Likes

Well, you can see the forecast for Aug core pce is to go up, just like core cpi did (I’m sure it got adjusted after CPI was released). I think as long as it meets or is below current forecast then the market will be content.

I just used the forecast number from tradingeconomics. Marketwatch was similar at 4.7% & 0.5%.

6 Likes

Just want to revisit this as the sentiment numbers came out this morning as basically flat, but still up from August. This is still the leading indicator I’m watching, so despite the evidence that inflation has not peaked and the frontloaded rates will continue to be fast and furious, I feel this gave my shrinking window a little more breathing room.

I want to see a big step down in sentiment before I start really ramping up my downside position. I have started one just in case, but I’m targeting March 2023 with fairly aggressive numbers (currently targeting 300 and 290 on SPY, a 20% drop from here). For now, I am going to dig my feet in the ground a little firmer and say bullish rallies are still not off the table for the next month at least which should be taken as:

  • Opportunities to shore up your war chest in preparation for the coming down by playing the upside
  • Opportunities to average down on your longer puts

This might seem a little like I’m plugging my ears and not listening to the noise, but I again just want to reiterate that I believe the fall is coming, I believe in the vast majority of bear cases I’ve heard, I just don’t believe they’re going to happen tomorrow.

1 Like