The True value Proposition of Blockchain and Cryptocurrencies: A fourth industrial revolution, A new Accounting standard and a new form of truth for transacting value on a global scale

[center]The True value Proposition of Blockchain and Cryptocurrencies: A fourth industrial revolution, A new Accounting standard and a new form of truth for transacting value on a global scale[/center]


Warning this is going to be a big fat wall of text essay style but effort and work has gone into this and I think you can get some value out of it if you stay the course and push through. I will be talking about some things which will appear to be off topic but I have included them as I believe it both frames and forms a basis for the end thesis of why this holds so much value for the future and can change society far more than people realise.

In this DD (is that the right word for this?I’m not sure) I will attempt to strip away all the noise, hype and confusion and get to the true heart of what value and improvements this technological platform can offer humanity. I will be looking at this at the most primal layer possible so we can identify where all this value generation is coming from and why. Having a better understanding of this will assist us in identifying true value creating projects which can give large returns over the long term with the main basis of asset price growth coming from fundamental revenue growth instead of short term investor speculation.

Before going any further we need to cast from our minds anything related to price especially in terms of fiat as this can distort what value we place on certain facts and realities and what really matters in the grand scheme of things. As Warren Buffet said in the short term the Markets are a casino in the long term they are a weighing machine. We need to weigh the value and Fiat pricing and thinking is brilliant at preventing us from adopting this long term mindset as it teaches you to value things on what you can buy with it now as fiat will always devalue in the long term.

This document will also show you why I’m crap at hype and momentum plays and why it’s been a huge learning opportunity to see things from the perspective of excellent day/swing traders like JB, Conqueror, Kryptek, Tedro, Deadbread, NoSauceNoGains, Rexxxar, Raiben the list goes. You’ve really opened my mind to this particular method of investing and I can’t thank you enough for your time and effort in building this community. You’re bringing opportunity and knowledge to people such as myself who in my normal social circles would be relatively inaccessible.

[center]What is Blockchain and why does it have fundamental value outside speculation?[/center]

[center]A brief history of the evolution of trade and exchange:[/center]

Hunter gatherer:

Before money most people are led to believe humans operated on a system of gifting and bartering. This was the case with pre agricultural nomadic society. As human interaction would have been brief and transitory a simple exchange of what they had to hand was all that could be facilitated. This could have been an exchange of knowledge in tool creation, hunting grounds, fresh water, shelter building or anything else. Although a very simple act, this ability for a species to exchange knowledge gained through experience to other in species individuals is the basis of human dominance on the planet and our capabilities to develop technology outside the knowledge of a single generation let alone a single individual (to quote Isaac Newton “if i have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of Giants”) . A small detail leading to monumental reshaping of a planet.

Agrarian civilization and the classical era:

Once humans were able to harness the power of agriculture in 10,000 BC in an area of the fertile crescent (the birthplace of civilization) an area stretching though modern Egypt, Jordan, Lebanon, Palestine, Israel, Syria, Turkey, Iran, Iraq and Cyprus. So called due to its crescent shape.

Due to the proliferation of freshwater rivers and brackish wetlands there was a large supply of wild edible plant species that could be cultivated (the first grains and cereals still to this day forming the mainstay of human caloric consumption). This allowed a transition from a mobile nomadic society to a sedentary agricultural one. This had MASSIVE implications for trade, value exchange and as a result cultural, technological and economic growth like never seen before. The world’s first great empires were founded here as a result, ancient Egypt, the Hittites, Babylonia, Persia and all formed one small change that meant humans didn’t need to move with the seasons and could live in higher density populations again changing the face of the earth. This enabled the formation of a social based credit economy (I’ll build you this house because you are known in this community and you’ll owe me one) this meant exchange and trade could flow more freely than ever before allowing humans in localised communities to be specialists instead of generalists. Previously humans would need to be able to hunt, gather, cook, make shelter, clothing as a result all was done at a more basic level. Now carpentry, masonry, bronze work, farming, textiles and even the first paper papyrus would allow knowledge to evolve from the passage of stories to the accurate written word. More complex economies could develop and more economic growth to a new agrarian economy.

The first form of money in the form of coinage was the Mespotamian shekel nearly 5,000 years ago with the first mints in 650 to 600 BC in Asia Minor. This was the money of the elite, the kings, Queens and Emperors and maybe some rich noble families. The issue with social credit was it was endemic to a population. Any outsider by its nature would not have social credit. So in order to transport value, taking trade goods would have been very difficult on a mass scale. Coinage allowed intangible value to be transported long distances due to its portability, durability, trans portability and inherent value (often silver or copper was used). Kings and Emperors would also mint their coins with their own image and use it as a projection of power. What compelled the creation of such an innovation was war and armies. Armies required food, clothing and supplies while on the move and social credit was not an option and pillaging an area you were planning on ruling isn’t a recipe for stability so coins were used to ensure armies could pay for the supplies they needed on campaign. This allowed for expansion of empires on more stable empires. In turn more economic growth and a greater exchange of goods and services over a greater area and less barriers to trade such as raids or conflicting currencies. Different areas of the world rich in different resources could supplement each other. This is in part what allowed the formation of such long standing aforementioned empires.

Various empires rose and fell in the classical era but all had a common weakness that is that the primary source of power was that of an individual and the force they could bring to bear in terms of silver and military might. Once a leader died or was killed it would destabilize the entire power structure of a region causing political instability and war and we all know what that does to an economy. The Romans and Greeks briefly evolved semi democratic (citizenry in Rome meant serving in a legion and some other exceptions and Greece Citizens were people of power not just anyone in Athens etc) regimes however these faced collapse from external and internal pressures. Rome became a dictatorship under Caesar and Greece was conquered by rome.

Dark ages 476AD-1000AD:

This was more or less a lapse in political and administrative regimes and a loss of technological capabilities from Rome which were not sustainable without its global networks. Although very interesting, the collapse of the Roman empire is not relevant to the point here so I will skip over this.

Medieval Feudalism 1000AD-1250:

The origin of feudalism comes from latin feudalis meaning fee and foedum meaning fief. The fee was the land given (fief) as payment for regular military service. This was an advancement in administration. By having both a system in place for decentralisation of power with vassals (you manage this land and keep some profit but give me troops when i ask) and having a system in place for determining an inheritance to the throne through bloodlines and having the throne as an entity itself (I guess in a weird way it’s kind of the first corporation) it lead to multi generational stability. No one party of power wanted to tear it all down just reorganize the pyramid of power as they all had VESTED INTERESTS AS STAKEHOLDERS (i will circle back to this) Although not perfect (we had the occasional disagreement in Europe of the correct assessment of the bloodline, fuck you Lancashire! White rose of Yorkshire for life!) it did offer far more economic stability. As a result a more complex global economy. However this is an evolution of administration and establishment of institutions more than one of accountancy and currency so I don’t want to spend too long here.

Double entry bookkeeping and mercantilism 1300ish:

In 1495 in Italy Leonardo da Vinci noted in one of his books a to do list on it was “ learn multiplication from the root from Maestro Luca.” Luca Pacioli was a Renaissance man educated in commerce, conjuring, a chess master, a franciscan friar and a professor of mathematics. He is also known as the father of double entry book-keeping, however he was not its creator.

Double entry book keeping known in the day as “bookkeeping alla Veneziana” or “ in the venetian style” was being used around 2 centuries earlier around 1300. The venetians had abandoned Roman numerals in favour of Arabic ones. There is a possibility it came from Arabic nations or Indian but there is no solid evidence of this at this time that I am aware of.

Prior to this merchants were no more than travelling salesmen they had no way to keep accounts and simply checked if their purse was empty or full. Up to this point accounting was done only by the very wealthy or elite. Accounting was done annually with the Exchequer (so called because of the chequer table cloth that would be used in combination with counters for accounting) formed in England around 1179 and simply provided a snapshot of what they had in that moment. The abacus, accounting rolls and Justices in Eyre were developed however it was not a running balance of account it was still snapshots. This meant value at this time was measured in how much land you had, how many bushels of wheat you could grow, heads of cattle, men at arms, horses etc you had. And economic growth was entirely reliant on seasonal weather and obtaining more land.

Back to our Renaissance man Luca Pacioli. In 1494 he wrote a book called “Summa de Arithmetica, Geometria, Proportioni et Proportionalita.” which was a compendium of everything that was known about mathematics in 615 pages.

Inside this master work there were 27 pages that are widely regarded to this day as the most influential work in capitalism. It was the first detailed description of double-entry bookkeeping to be set out clearly and in detail with examples. This knowledge was expedited throughout the world through the movable type printing press which Venice at the time was the centre of. It was not adopted by all common businesses at this stage but the newly emerging rich merchant class was using it widely as well as the aristocracy and noble elite. However in light of the industrial revolution this would be THE STANDARD and essential to any business first used by Josiah Wedgewood a pottery entrepreneur who first was making fat gainz when a recession dropped demand for his ornate wears turned to the method to identify where his profits and costs were and saved his fortunes.

You need to understand prior to this all power and wealth was derived from family names, bloodlines, fiefdoms, agricultural yields and the size of the army you could muster. Average joe did not own land and simply farmed it on behalf of his liege lord. His liege lord got his power granted by the king or queen etc. the idea of a wealthy trader with power simply did not exist. Economic growth did not happen other than taking more land and robbing your neighbour (like when we English used to give the French a good old fashioned beating). Value extraction was already maximized so you had to just take more. Mercantilism powered by double entry book keeping changed the world in so many ways. Merchants became able to influence Kings, Merchants states also known as maritime republics like Venice, Genoa, pisa and Amalifi were run by the textile, shipping or whatever barrons and not Kings or Queens. They could literally buy armies of mercenaries at the drop of a hat to win wars with professional well armed soldiers vs feudal states mostly temporarily mustered troops which would be farmers and potters. Double entry bookkeeping flipped what power meant on its head and birth capitalism.

So to recap:

  1. The ability to trade in nomadic society lead to humans being the Apex predator
  2. The ability to utilise agriculture, alter their local landscape and form sedentary higher density populations enabling an endemic social credit economy and the creation of royal mints and coinage and the formation of the first civilisations and empires.
  3. The medieval ages new form of stakeholder economics where power was divested form the central authority of the monarch to vassals in the form of feudalism and with institutions which outlived their occupants lead to a more stable economic environment.
  4. An innovation in accountancy changed the entire power structure and economic landscape of the globe and gave place to modern capitalism giving all incumbents right down to the individual worker a stake with time birthing huge economic growth beyond land grabbing.

The Industrial revolutions:

There is much debate on how many industrial revolutions there have been however I will be sticking to the theory that there have been 3 and we are living in the 4th one. This is simply a debate of categorization which is essentially a meaningless human concept to enable us to grasp the world around us so let’s not split hairs over this.

The first industrial revolution, Steam power and non standardised mechanical automation 1760-1840:

This was the process of transition from agrarian and handicraft economies to one dominated by industry and machine manufacturing. This process began in Britain in the 18th century from 1760 to 1840. So something to draw attention to is this is a technological driver of change, We have also explored other drivers such as administrative, accountancy and social (we will circle back to this later). The main components which enabled this transformation are new basic materials such as high strength iron and steel, new energy sources for fuel and motive power such as coal and the steam engine. New machines including the spinning Jenny and the power loom for mass production of textiles reducing the requirement of human labor. New organisation of work in factories. This caused huge displacement in work and many people found themselves out of work as they were replaced by machines. The luddites was a rebellion of such workers who smashed apart textile mill machines who felt their long established trade was being deceitfully destroyed by the new capitalist class.

These new machines were all custom made of non standardised components so took the original builders of them to enable them to be repaired and maintained and no part that would work one factories machine would work on another. This significantly limited growth and progress. Britain also forbid the exporting of the machines and one of the first instances was William and John Cockerill who brought the industrial revolution to Belgium with machine shops in Leige. The Russian Bourgeoisie lacked the resources and wealth to develop this however under the Soviet union they achieved what took Britain a century and a half in 5 years, France was in revolution (there’s a shocker) and Germany in spite of having massive reserves of Iron and coal lagged behind but once they got going they out paced and overtook even Britain (and caused some bother later on).

This is the FIRST TIME IN HISTORY that the standard of living of the average person was going up from one generation to the next driven by GDP per capita growing which . Throughout most of history this has been largely stagnant and entirely dependent on the agricultural yield. This changed people’s expectations, how people lived (more urbanisation and density), increased power in the merchant now capitalist class, a shift from land value in terms of agricultural value to that of industrial development and resource richness. However this began to stall out before the second revolution in 1870.

All the economic growth from this stemmed from the ability of one man today to make what 100 would have yesterday thanks to technology the heart of what drove value growth in that era.

The Second Industrial revolution standardisation 1870-1914:

This was the technological revolution which was the rapid phase of standardisation and industrialization from the 19th to the 20th century. The interchangeable parts and the Bessemer process (the first inexpensive mass steel production) allowed for a much larger scale of adoption for industrial innovations. This included the telegraph, railroad networks, gas, water supply, sewerage systems which had been for select cities. This is the first glimpse into globalisation that would be visible to more average members of the population rather than isolated pockets on industrial activity in the age prior. Obviously the onerous task of maintaining the non standard machines of old with limited steel capacity and differing areas having different non standard tech severely stifled growth and put a cap on how far it could be pushed until this second age.

All the growth from this area is part technological (telegraph, bessemer steel etc) and part administrative (the standardisation of parts).

The third industrial revolution computers, the internet and big data 1943-1989?:

This is a bit harder to define and the waters get muddy here but here’s my take on humanity’s next major economic leap forward. In 1943-1945 in Bletchley park a British intelligence task force developed a Colossus computer in order to break the enigma code of the Germans which required the day’s code from the enigma machine (captured by the Polish) and a huge number of computations (Spoilers it worked). This kick started the computer industry which eventually found its way into modern life and we all know about the impacts it has had in administrative, data processing, communications, sales, marketing as its part of our daily lives so I won’t go into much detail here but it has opened up new levels of human labor efficiency. What the factory did to the textile worker in 1760 the computer did to the office worker. More GDP per capita growth and a whole new market and environments with big data, the internet and gaming.


  1. Industrialisation enabled higher density living and an increased output on a person by person basis enabling growth in standard of living that existed outside the mercies of agricultural yields for the first time in history.
  2. Standardisation of parts enabled more parts of the globe to benefit from this.
  3. Computers are good at stuff.
  4. Social media and online sales took off in the early 2000s i guess but its not the face melting holy shit this is changing the very structures of power and how we evaluate the value level of change that I think this is.

[center]The fourth industrial revolution, Blockchain, immutable ledgers, cryptographic truth and stakeholder capitalism:[/center]

Well done to those who have made it this far. I sound like a lunatic historian who doesn’t belong in an investing community but I’m about to get to the promised land of the value proposition and how we monetise this.

So for a start we haven’t seen an innovation in accountancy since 1300 that’s 721 years ago. We also haven’t had a proper game changer when it comes to economics since 1989 (computers and tech have advanced but it’s more tweaks and optimisation than a new paradigm that can change the way we live) so that’s 30 years. We haven’t had a shake up of the structure of how economic value is assigned really since mercantilism aka 721 years.

So now hopefully we’ve established a scene of how something can dramatically change the way we live, price things, distribute power and wealth and what can help boost per capita growth and why we have in recent years seen that slow down substantially when taking into account inflation.

So blockchain at its core is an automated double entry ledger of account that is immutable (cannot be changed), Cryptographically secure (safety maths) and often but not always Decentralised (no single actor of authority but multiple).

Bitcoin is our prime example of this, some of my other DD’s including the one on ESG and CBDC’s (this covers some current implications of how power structures are being changed today) , chainlink and Dose does a good one too links below.

Dose’s Trading intro Crypto Currency 101 - The Beginners Guide to Crypto Principles and Trading

The point is Accountancy is about to be made a ton more reliable and efficient and it’s going to enable some incredible innovations that cut out large requirements of human labor and time in a manner our generation has not yet seen.

The base problem and the base solution:

What is truth and trust and how do we use it in modern society?

Blockchain is attempting to solve the problem of what is truth and how society functions on a basis of trust. So at the moment we have just trust us with paper promises. Banks, insurance companies and other entities all promise to fulfill various commitments with no real solid unbreakable commitment to fulfill.This is normal and up until now we did not have a choice.

The world currently operates on institutions and brands. This really is quite an old way of operating and somewhat medieval (institutions which still exist to this day were established back then and brands were family names they even had logos aka crests). It essentially rests on the concept that the institution will act on a set of principles laid out in law or policies. However there are times where short term economic incentives can outweigh long term moral, legal and financial ones.

Examples of this include government scandals List of political scandals in the United Kingdom - Wikipedia , Ponzi schemes like Bernie Madoff, Corporate fraud like Enron, commercial banking fraud, removing the dollar from the Gold standard after the dollars issued exceeded the gold backing it, central governments generally in impoverished countries succumbing to corruption and money printing often having to issue new currencies after hyperinflation like Argentina, Hungary, Zimbabwe and Yugoslavia as some examples where governments and central banks abuse their ability to print their way out of a crisis (don’t look at modern fiat it’s fine honest).

On the subject of fiat its a storey told dozens of times in history before Fiat always goes to hyperinflation and blows up its the dollar doesn’t it will be the first ever, and what are the chances of that. History doesn’t repeat but it often rhymes. this is a link to an infographic of 152 failed fiat currencies and their lifespan. And it doesn’t even go back that far relative to the earliest known inception of fiat in China.

The dollar has been fully decoupled from gold since 1953 so that’s 68 years. 68 year old fiat, Not long in the scheme of things.

This underpins solvency, credit, insurance everything and it doesn’t exactly look like a stable or reliable system. But it’s the best option we’ve had so far.

The issue is there are often opportunities for individuals or groups within centralised organisations to exploit their power for short term economic gain at the expense of the larger economy or group. And there is no truly reliable systemic way to bring about swift economic consequences to such actions until now.

This changed in 2009 with bitcoin. This enabled the guarantee of outcomes with mathematics, physics and cryptographic security. More and more advanced versions of this have developed with smart contract platforms like ethereum and oracles like chainlink. The nature of blockchain technology will enable up to date open and accessible fully audited cryptographically secure accounting of data, collateral and documentation at all times.

Bitcoin is so different and unique as for the first time you had a private key and you had something you could control with no one stopping you that you could send a transaction that was guaranteed not to be stopped or interfered with and you could prove forever took place. That’s not something that could be guaranteed before without a middleman for the transaction. Even physical cash can be devalued from the entity that issues it which could invalidate a transaction.

Lets look at the legacy financial system vs Defi on a software level. Well when we order or buy a stock it takes days to settle and goes through a whole mess of different systems before being actually attributed to you as an investor. So you buy from Fidelity, they send it to citadel who then sends it to the DTCC for final clearing. I may have missed some steps but it doesn’t really matter there are different brokers, street level brokers all on different systems sending orders of different exchanges and servers all that have to be totted up by a central agency. That’s lots of steps which are open to error before final settlement is reached. Now the DTCC and Citadel and other such organisations I’m sure do an impressive job and I’m not here to dispute that or make out they are inherently dishonest as it’s not in their interest to act in such a way. I’m more highlighting all the various stages a simple buy or sell has to go through before it’s finally accounted for on the base system the master ledger as it were at the DTCC.

Compared to DeFi which you trade and in seconds it’s settled you can see it done. All that administrative checking and balancing is gone. It simply is a far more efficient operating layer. It also has no central authority (in Ethereum) so no one individual weak point can be compromised as it is done through automated processes. It is by no means ready to handle such volume however developments in blockchain are coming thick and fast to facilitate higher throughput at lower transactional cost.

This guarantee at the base layer that blockchain can provide is truth whereas in legacy financial systems where intermediary 3rd parties (banks etc) operate on trust which is an inferior basis to transact on. Truth > Trust.

How will the existing infrastructure be displaced and why would they choose to use it?

Quite simply the complexity and breadth of capability of smart contacts, blockchain and oracle systems the more services can be incentivised to use them. And looking at the current development path of the cryptocurrency space this is happening at an accelerated pace. That’s the how. The why is simple. It will remove counter party risk and running costs. So looking at banking and transaction and settlement of stocks etc as we have before if we remove the requirement for a trust based institution with a truth based cryptographic software we have removed the need for staff, offices, company cars, ATM machines, buildings, power and heating for the staffed building maintenance and cleaning costs. I could go on but you get the picture. Much like the spinning Jennys of the first industrial revolution displacing the needs for huge numbers of textile weavers, the blockchain will do away with a large variety of roles in the financial sector as it is gradually automated into smart contracts. Also counter party risk. As everything on chain can be verified including things such as proof of collateral and block times are generally less than 10 seconds you are going from a world of annually audited accounts by centralised companies like KPMG to 10 second audits conducted by immutable programs. It simply presents a lower counter party risk to people to deal with transactions on chain.

A very simple example would be weather insurance. If a farm requires insurance against extreme weather events or lower rainfall etc. Once they have engaged with an on chain insurance smart contract they can 1 check at any time that the appropriate collateral is in place, 2 guarantee that once the parameters are triggered to execute the insurance (an oracle reports substantially lower rainfall the smart contract is programmed to trigger below a certain threshold to insure against drought) will pay out straight away without a centralised authority like an insurance company sending out someone to assess if a payout is due which could in the case of a bad actor intentionally be misreported on.

But what if a smart contract is intentionally misprogrammed or an oracle intentionally mis reports data. Well in Proof of stake systems in blockchain in order to economically as well as cryptographically secure smart contracts nodes and oracles processing data need to stake a higher level of economic value on the node through the token than they are securing on chain. So if I lie about a transaction worth $5million I will have my economic stake slashed to a greater degree than I can physically profit from. There are systems in place and in development where other nodes in the network, if they correctly identify the bad actors, will receive a bounty from that slashing. And because it is one interconnected network you would require a consensus of the full network in order to successfully misreport which means controlling 51% of the entire network. There are even cryptographic developments which raise this threshold for control even higher. If this is the global settlement layer for global transactions I can’t imagine that would be viable.


NFT’s are simply tokens which rather than having one generic format to represent fungibility or voting power/utility on a protocol have unique attributes in and of themselves. You may all be thinking shitty jpegs but they have far more to them than that. NFT’s essentially allow us to store unique documents on chain such as deeds to property, legal documents, identification like national insurance numbers, health records etc. (these can be made private and hidden and attached to a private key so individuals would have controls over this as well has having the master key preventing duplication of ID and fraud see DECO and TOWNCRIER in my chainlink DD)

So to recap:

  1. Truth over trust could displace or disrupt many large centralised institutions and cause a complete evolution of how we value things (would the brand guarantee hold the same weight in years to come?)
  2. Blockchain and private permissionless keys give people access and control of their finances that have never existed before in history.
  3. Blockchain can offer reduced counter party risk and reduced costs to users to the point where competitors in the space will be forced on chain or be squeezed out.
  4. Proof of stake and stakeholder capitalism means economic actors have an enforced economic incentive to keep promises and not break agreements or misreport.
  5. Interoperable fraud proof documentation records.

Hopefully I have constructed a convincing enough proposition to at least make you consider the possibility that this will be the primary driver of growth and be one of the biggest drivers of change in how humanity exchanges value, data and agreements and as a result represents the single largest space for opportunities for investment growth our generation will ever see.


You’ve got my brain tingling in a good way @Grindalythe ! Awesome!

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I have been a proponent of blockchain projects for a while now, but I have recently become disconnected with the projects that may be most impactful in the future. I have been looking more into the Defi space these last couple of months and it seems like something that will last far into the future. The question is, what projects will last into the future? This space is competitive and will remain so far into the future. With crypto the best strategy may be to find 10 - 15 projects that could have a huge impact if X occurs in the future and hold onto the coins for 5 to 10 years. I was an early bitcoin adopter back when it was $300-400, I wish that I had held onto the BTC I had then. Regardless going into the future are there any projects you are looking at that you are interested in?


I have done some DD’s on cryptos i would give consideration to longer terms plays and i intend on expanding on this. You can find them in the crypto DD section, Chainlink, Energy web chain, Pocket network, polkadot (yet to DD), alchemist (yet to DD), the graph GRT, compound, Aave (yet to DD) , balancer (yet to DD) , synthetix (yet to DD), Ocean protocol (yet to DD), Ren (yet to DD), Yearn finance (yet to DD), theres more but i think these are all solid projects with first mover advantage, good governance, coding, a forward thinking team with good integrations and potential for mass adoption use cases at various layers.

1 Like

An interesting Discourse

alteplase — 11/13/2021

Any “stable” coin that’s tied to an inflationary asset like the $USD is destined to fail imo

Oggz 2.0 — 11/13/2021

Yes Tether has been a hot topic, lots of fear abkout what is backing its value, and if it’s Chinese bonds or something like that.

alteplase — 11/13/2021

The goal is a rebasing mechanism that depends entirely on supply/demand dynamics without being pegged to anything.

Oggz 2.0 — 11/13/2021

Tether is a crypto stable coin but it is not really decentralised is it?

  1. alteplase — 11/13/2021

  2. Centralized and pegged to $USD lol.

Nobody is looking 5-10 years into the future right now.

Oggz 2.0 — 11/13/2021

Isn’t UST for example more decentralised and it’s mechanism is a series of secure smart contracts?

alteplase — 11/13/2021

when Tether collapses, it’s going take everyone down with them.

Oggz 2.0 — 11/13/2021

What happens tho, isn’t the supply of tether still capped?

alteplase — 11/13/2021

Circle, the cryptocurrency company and stablecoin issuer, revealed through a public filing that it is under investigation by the Securities and Exchange Commission


Centralization = Death.

Tether prints money out of thin air, like our central bank → Hyperinflation

Oggz 2.0 — 11/13/2021

Well in the scenario where tether collapses the demand for it will slump bit the supply will remain the same because the automatic burning will have been turned off?

A Tether collapse would end up benefiting BTC ?

alteplase — 11/13/2021

BTC is the past man. Sure it’ll remain a speculative asset. It failed as a functional (crypto)currency. An ETH-based currency will do what Bitcoin never could, which one, is the question.

Oggz 2.0 — 11/13/2021

Doesn’t the store of value functionality of BTC work well?

alteplase — 11/13/2021

No lol. One day your “store of value” is worth 60k the next day it’s 30k. Too volatile.

Oggz 2.0 — 11/13/2021

But your ownership as % of the total supply can never go down.

alteplase — 11/13/2021

Bitcoin is still inflationary brother.

Oggz 2.0 — 11/13/2021

Depends on if you are considering un-mined Bitcoins in its valuation

Schreiner — 11/13/2021

They are currently working with the SEC and are being completely compliant with all there requests… note sure how you can say it is destined to fail without relizing the potential this trade could have now… all currency will eventually be destined to fail lol

poonisher — 11/13/2021

Good stuff! Whatever replaces swift will gain enormous market share. Got to be a very fast network with extremely low fees though.

Schreiner — 11/13/2021

This company could become the first trusted, legitimate bridge from the crypto world to established one. The SEC is investigating them because they are offering customers 7.31% return on their savings

SailorCoon — 11/13/2021

Whole design is to prevent inflation of the coin. Over time, the price will stabilize with more adoption.

Taen — 11/13/2021

But I guess people would argue Tether collapsing might shake the faith of people in crypto

Schreiner — 11/13/2021

If any team has a shot it is Circle, stable coins are like the giants of the crypto world… without them you wouldnt have what we have today.

Schreiner — 11/13/2021

Sweet, let me know what you think. Probably going to look to take a position on monday.

Oggz 2.0 — 11/13/2021

1 BTC is worth $1.9M of todays USD if it were to be used as the world reserve currency

alteplase — 11/13/2021

Oggz 2.0 — 11/13/2021

Yeah i think it would be a crash like the COVID one on the SP500

alteplase — 11/13/2021

ELI5: “Bitcoin is a RISK ASSET”

and will remain a speculative asset, in my opinion.

It will never function as our IRL currencies.

Oggz 2.0 — 11/13/2021

(Total USD) 40T / 21M (total BTC)

In a scenario where the United States collapses the $ will lose its functionally and thus its value. If that happens then there is only precious metals and BTC for the world to use as the reserve currency.

  1. oarabbus — 11/13/2021
    Disinflationary - bitcoin has supply inflation, but at a decreasing rate
  2. Oggz 2.0 — 11/13/2021
    I think it’s very likely that the world would default to BTC as the world reserve currency in that scenario if that were to happen in today’s atmosphere.

As long as it still works and the network still works.

Taen — 11/13/2021

That’s for sure, other cryptocurrencies are way better equipped to serve as a currency, but what you think doesn’t matter, but rather what the majority thinks, if the majority does think that BTC serves as a store of value people will continue to buy in and treat it as digital gold.

Oggz 2.0 — 11/13/2021

For a widely used cash something with a very large supply would be more ideal

But an un-inflatable indicator such as value in BTC is great , but i guess people can just do the math actually to find the true value of something

Taen — 11/13/2021

Well, true value is subject to what people believe it is

Oggz 2.0 — 11/13/2021

Like for a waterfront property, those have great value. You could divide it by the total amount of similar properties in the whole world. And then ratio that to total BTC

Taen — 11/13/2021

If no one believes in BTC it’ll just drop back down to zero

  1. Oggz 2.0 — 11/13/2021
    The thing is you can’t not believe in the value of BTC because it’s mathematical

  2. Scarcity based value not emotional

  3. If i have 1 BTC i will always value it at 1/21M

  4. Taen — 11/13/2021
    I know

People will always have differing views of stuff I guess
5. Oggz 2.0 — 11/13/2021
Like healthcare, doesn’t matter if it’s expensive or cheap in USD, it has the same value to us.

Or gold, doesn’t matter of it’s cheap or expensive in USD, it’s still gold

It’s rare, even of some people don’t care for gold and don’t think it’s cool to have gold it is still valuable because you cant just get it easily

For the price of gold to go to 0 people have to be willingly giving it away for nothing.

  1. Taen — 11/13/2021
    I would say the value of gold is assigned to it because of the people that buy gold and believe in its value

Which is the same I’ll say for BTC

  1. So tbh I don’t really get that reddit post

Oggz 2.0 — 11/13/2021
If people lost belief in golds value somehow and threw theirs in the street… Then what is it’s value a few months after such an event

I guess it would be less hoarded and we would see how abundant gold actually is lol

I guess there is a lot more gold than we think because it’s hoarded and locked away in large quantities

… Actually forget all that, the value of something comes from what we can do with it. Gold is valuable because it can give us $ at a later date when we want $ to use for something.

Taen — 11/13/2021

I think it all comes down to what people value something

AdvanTech — 11/13/2021

I used to like this argument, but I don’t anymore. Any coin can be created to be scarce. So if any coin can be as good of a store of value as BTC via scarcity while at the same time being better at literally every other blockchain metric you can think of plus any capabilities bitcoin doesn’t posses, then I believe the flippening is well underway. Mathmatecially, you also can’t not believe that BTCs dominance has been on a downtrend over the past decade. I can absolutely not believe in the value of bitcoin.

Oggz 2.0 — 11/13/2021

True BTC dominance has been on a downtrend ever since its existence as the first crypto, but that is it’s dominance in the crypto market, not all markets combined.Any coin can indeed be created to be scarce, any pokemon card can be created to be scarce, any Nike sneaker, any living artists painting series. But precious metals can not be created to be scarce, they are scarce no matter what.

  1. AdvanTech — 11/13/2021
    Exactly, which is why I’m saying “bitcoin is a great store of value because it is scarce” means nothing to me anymore.
  2. There is too much potential in blockchain technology to get stuck at “store of value”.

Oggz 2.0 — 11/13/2021
I think it has those risks just like pokemon cards, paintings, cars, sneakers has. But out of those it is the best at functioning as a cash. Out of cash that are intended as cash like dollar, euro, physical tokens, casino chips, it is the best store of value. Compared to the scarce natural stores of value (gold,water, etc) it is much more usable as a cash.

AdvanTech — 11/13/2021

The white paper stated that it was intended to be used as a new type of currency but it only became a store of value specifically because it wasn’t actually that good at being a currency.

I’m thankful for it’s existence but I’m ready for more deserving projects to come out on top. There are better problems to be solved with the tech. It’s just a matter of time, I guess.

Oggz 2.0 — 11/13/2021

Gold isn’t the best precious metal for store of value as it is not the scarcest, it has scarcity issues and is still easily found, yet it is still the chosen one. Historically because its easy to make it into coins whereas some other rare element is only for example in liquid form at normal earth temperatures so it might be more scarce but it was impractical. In the present day however we have the technology to store easily way more scarce elements than gold but we still use gold as our store of value, because it is gold and we believe in it. Bitcoin is not the best but it is the gold of the crypto currencies.

AdvanTech — 11/13/2021

For now.

oarabbus — 11/13/2021

BTC has passed critical mass. Don’t underestimate the power of the network effect combined with the first mover advantage once something reaches critical mass

AdvanTech — 11/13/2021

Oh I know, that’s why it’s dominance is so slow to fall. But it is falling

Oggz 2.0 — 11/13/2021

Gold is also falling in dominance, but it is still gold

oarabbus — 11/13/2021

Yeah I agree - but it will always be one of the “more valuable” cryptos, unless we’re talking like 100 years in the future. All bets are off for that far out

AdvanTech — 11/13/2021

Yes, for sure

oarabbus — 11/13/2021

Agreed, goldbugs are seen as silly and missing out on gains (which has been pretty true for a decade) but it has a pretty high floor

Oggz 2.0 — 11/13/2021

In the physical object store of value market gold is losing market share to silver and other precious metals since a long time, but also rare historical objects, collectors items, other rare elements.

AdvanTech — 11/13/2021

But gold has inherent properties that make it special. It’s incredible at heat deflection, it doesn’t corrode.Blockchain tech has improved since bitcoin.

There is nothing bitcoin does that another chain can’t do as well or better

Oggz 2.0 — 11/13/2021

Gold ticks both boxes of relative ease of verification of authenticity and relative ease of transferebility.

And the final box of trust in it as a store of value by allot of people. (You just need a lot, not everyone)

Oggz 2.0 — 11/13/2021

Bitcoin ticks those 3 boxes in a much harder way

oarabbus — 11/13/2021

I think are a large component of people who place a premium on gold being a physical object

but I do agree that it does

Oggz 2.0 — 11/13/2021

  1. You can verify that you are getting gold (requires some expertise) 2. You can divide gold into nice blocks and coins (requires some expertise) 3. Gold is widely accepted as having value. 1. Bitcoin is automatically verified as being Bitcoin (needs some expertise too actually) 2. Bitcoin is dividable into smaller potions (easier than gold and requires no expertise or any tools) 3. Bitcoin is widely accepted as holding valueBitcoin is so efficient compared to gold that it moves so much faster, that also means it will reach the end of its life cycle faster and potentially die faster than gold.

Gold will eventually also lose its value but we are not even half way there yet .

Schreiner — 11/13/2021

I think it is something put some money in. Not sure what caused the recent run up, but I could see this thing taking off after the Merger occurs. It has some major investors and even if it flops when the merger occurs, I could see it become a increasely valuable company over time with some major catalystsin the future. But I am also pretty biased. What say you?

Oggz 2.0 — 11/13/2021

That is true but Bitcoin has a lot of advantages not being a physical object too. For the rich owning a secure vault gold has the edge but for the average Joe and the poor Bitcoin has the premium because they can store an infinite amount of it without needing a vault or any physical space to store it.

And there is way more average Joe’s in the world than rich vault owners

oarabbus — 11/13/2021

Personally I think gold will always retain some value because of the possibility of some kind of postapocalyptic scenario, as unrealistic as that actually happening may be

Oggz 2.0 — 11/13/2021

That is logical because you can physically trade with gold without need for computers

Bitcoin is dependent on the internet existing lol

AdvanTech — 11/13/2021

Yeah, I know what you guys are saying. I know bitcoin is not going anywhere for awhile. I’m just excited for what blockchain tech can do for the world beyond bitcoins capabilities.

Oggz 2.0 — 11/13/2021

The big disadvantage of Bitcoin and all Blockchain is that it is depandant on the internet. And not just any internet but it has to be the main internet

AdvanTech — 11/13/2021

And dependent on people that care to solve increasingly complex sudokus to keep the machine running

Why continue when all BTC are mined?

Oggz 2.0 — 11/13/2021

Yes but that is a minor issue compared to the fact that all cryptos currently need the internet to be viable currencies

AdvanTech — 11/13/2021


Oggz 2.0 — 11/13/2021

The next breakthrough would be a Blockchain that is able to function via radio

oarabbus — 11/13/2021

Yeah, that’s a really interesting one. I think it finishes new btc in ~2150 if I recall? I think it will be treated as less valuable at that point

Oggz 2.0 — 11/13/2021

Radio waves are nature’s internet

They are here always

oarabbus — 11/13/2021

That’s a cool idea. I wonder if there are any theoretical papers on it

AdvanTech — 11/13/2021

Even if it is still considered valuable, transactions won’t be verified if no one expends the energy to validate them

Oggz 2.0 — 11/13/2021

Also a radio on the world’s radio waves is way more decentralisabke than computers fixed on the human controlled internet

Oggz 2.0 — 11/13/2021

I’m thinking would that even be possible given how blockchain works. Blockchain needs some kind of centslosed place to be able to download the new blocks from and upload them?

oarabbus — 11/13/2021

Well they still have transaction fees to collect by verifying transactions. I do agree a ton of miners would drop out though, which also makes the blockchain less valuable by decreasing the decentralization

Oggz 2.0 — 11/13/2021

It would have to be proof of atomic time or something like that, maybe Solana is on to something

Doesn’t it all need to be synchronized for blockchain to work?

İt’s like a paradox, Blockchain is decentralised where it’s processed, but it’s cryptographic architecture it’s self is very centralized, all transactions are in the same blocks and there is no alternative

Just after typing that i realized that there is a while network of different Blockchains all helping each other

oarabbus — 11/13/2021

Yeah that’s pretty crazy, and why I don’t understand maximalists on Reddit. They’ll be like is the killer. If they’re both good, why wouldn’t I just use both?

It’s like some folks think I’d stop using cars, trains, and buses just because a plane gets you there faster

Oggz 2.0 — 11/13/2021

İt’s like using the internet only to look at Wikipedia

Took some time to read the whole thing, lots of effort put into the research!
Great job!

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